California to build electric car network

I’m always glad to see the “can-do” attitude of all the posters on this blog. Let’s all just sit here and enjoy the status quo, shall we? I mean, I really enjoy fueling up my car each week, knowing that I’m supporting some oil sheik’s island building habit (a la Dubai.)

As for the peak energy issue – if this is a battery swapping station, why wouldn’t they charge a certain number of batteries (expected next day’s usage, +5-10% cushion) overnight? Might that not make too much sense to do?

Everyone is so quick to throw out reason’s why “it won’t work” and sit on their ass and play airmchair physicist/engineer. How about, maybe we experiment a little bit and not be so afraid of failure all the damn time. We are so focused in on quarterly profits, to the detriment of any project that requires more than 6 months worth of investment.

I’m currently reading this article in the office on the lunch break and its caught my attention that this idea seems like a revolutionary step towards renewable energy but it is going to fail, the reasons why? the statements made before this is substantial proof, the battery swapping and the charging of batteries at stations clearly impractical, electricity peak hour in your state will be a amazing sight to behold, however I do admire a bold attempt like this though, would give a A+ for intention but a D- for research

It is very interesting, However, I’m wondering what is the status of the Hydrogen highway. Is there a place where we can be updated?

Someone had better start applying to build power plants now to support the electrical demand of these electric vehicles. Or you be able to plug in your electric car anywhere but the utilities won’t be able to supply the power. Plugging your electric vehicle in during the daytime will only require the peak power demand to increase. I guess people are so used to flipping a switch and having power that they haven’y fully thought this out. Where is the electricity going to come from??? This will only trquire the peak power requirement to increase, therefore making new power generation a necessity… Enjoy your rolling brownouts

To Steve in Phoenix – that kind of magnetic induction is horribly inefficient, and the amount of power that has to be transferred creates powerful magnetic fields that will induce unwanted currents in electrical circuits in the automobile, destroying the electronic controls.

Anyone with metal in their body – due to surgery – will be harmed, and anyone wearing jewelry – rings, necklaces – can be burned. The “ring” is a transformer itself – a shorted turn – in the presence of a magnetic field.

As for swapping stations – won’t work without some sort of inspection program to ensure the stations are operated honestly. Designing the automobile to make swapping the battery pack easy means the battery pack can be stolen easily, although it would require a forklift. The problem with insertion and removal of the battery pack is maintaining the intergrity of the connectors, corrosion is always going to occur with vehicles operated near salt water, and how many people live within 30 miles of the ocean?

Our best bet is the Chevy Volt design where an electric motor powers the vehicle’s motion, the gasoline engine charges the battery pack and powers the motor – the gasoline engine in this design runs at one speed, making it easier to tune and easier to control the emissions than for an engine that operates at many speeds, and the efficiency is thereby maximized. The battery serves as an energy reservoir that supplies greater power to the electric motor for accelerations (highway speeds) when it is needed.

From this basic design work can be done to get more battery capacity into the automobile to reduce the need for running the gasoline engine, although what happens if the gasoline in the tank gels because it isn’t needed for two months?

As for the Better Place charging, what about people who live in apartment complexes, or in slums? Where will they charge their electric vehicles?

The UAW is only a small portion of why these companies are failing. The bigger reason is the EPA and lobbyists pushing for environmental standards that prevent these companies from producing and selling the most profitable line of vehicles they make, which are SUVs. Even now, the majority of vehicles they sell are larger trucks and SUVs, but profits are down because of the extra cost of production and engineering needed to meet ridiculous requirements. Hardly anybody wants a Cobalt or a Focus, which aren’t very profitable anyway. The majority of people shopping for cars at that size/fuel economy/price level go for Hondas and Toyotas because of their quality and resale value.

This will fail for the same reason corn-based ethanol failed. It’s based on the desire to be ‘green’ rather than a real economic solution. The actual net carbon footprint is actually greater if you look at the energy needed to generate the electricity and produce these cars (as it was with ethanol), and since the nuclear industry was killed by the green movement, we are still buring fossil fules to produce the power! Solar and Wind are a joke, so problem NOT solved.

Doesn’t California already have a problem with their power grid supporting homes? This may not be as good of an idea as it seems on the surface…

I suppose it’s a start. For that matter, why not have some sort of inductive lines buried in the roadways so that electric cars can be charged or externally powered as they drive down the road, like bumper cars at the amusement park? You know, the way your electric toothbrush charges when placed on its stand. There’s no direct metal-metal contact there. How does that work? It works by magnetic inductance, alternating magnetic fields inducing voltage, same principle as an ordinary transformer, with no moving parts. The power used can be either metered, paid through tolls, or vehicle registration fees.

As it is, I ride an electric hybrid bicycle to work. Google “Izip” & see.

GM could offer a cheaper version of the Volt if they wanted to. The current car HAS to be engineered with area for the battery. Operating within those constraints, they could offer customers a range of options at varying prices. Lead acid, cheap but much less range, Nimh, moderate price and a little more range, or use a lithium pack licensed from Tesla for the most range and costliest base price. Of course, there’s probably a rework of the charging system, and vehicle control software, but come on, we can send probes to Mars!

I agree that the charging stations are a good idea but the swapping batteries. We are not talking about nine volt batteries here it would be labor intesive to do so. Also the big three and UAW, personally I am not a big fan of unions but many are good. The UAW made some unreasonable stipulations in the last contract, I do not like the idea that workers can be laid off and still get paid not to work. If this does not do damage to a company I do not know what would, I wish I had that job. Maybe if the UAW did not make these demands cost of Americam made cars would eb less. I do not like gas guzzlers either.

This is a start. Let’s not criticise; starting is the half the game. After this endeaver, we will learn more about the new way and apply to other cities. Go Shai Agashi and SF!!!

This project will fail. The reason being that there is already a better technology already being deployed that is more efficient and convenient. BYD, a Chinese company and subsidiary of the world’s largest cell phone battery maker is marketing a car that can be plugged into a regular power oulet, can run 60 miles on a single charge, and has a battery life of 300,000 miles plus. And most importantly is priced at $20,000 (half of Chevy volt) and will start selling this month in China. Their plan is to bring this car to the US and with this car, all we need is an electric plug at home or at work so this project in the bay area would be rendered technologically worthless.

And btw, before anyone starts doubting the car because it is from China. Warren Buffet adquired 10% of the company last month and Mr Buffet has never invested in a car company before. So this speaks volumes about the potential paradigm shift this car will bring either by entering the US market directly or licensing their battery technology.

UAW wasn’t mentioned in the article. SUVs do consume a lot of gasoline.
But, now that you mention it…the big 3 are going down hard, whether because of UAW or not. They have had 20 years to clean up their act.

Hey stop kissing company ass and blaming the UAW for the behavior of overpaid gutless wimps at the top of the food-chain. Nobody wants to is going to follow leaders so suck as bad as these guys

“damaged by its dependence on fossil fuel-hogging SUVs”
Way to throw in an editorial barb, Michael Moore. Seriously, does anyone have any idea what the UAW is or how it may have something to do with this Big 3 crisis? Is there some sort of correlation between UAW and non-UAW auto manufactuters?

You should not be paid to write things that people read.

Good idea to have battery charging stations set up within the cities. But will the cost be worth it? If Better Place has all the chargers, how will they set pricing?

Also, the idea of setting up battery swapping stations. Too bad that none of the electric cars being designed currently appear to have batteries that are (1) standardized or (2) easily removable! If it takes 3 hours to swap a battery pack, why not just recharge it?

This is a crazy idea. Where is the evidence that swapping stations from Better Place are needed? No car company is going to build a huge panel on the side of their car to facilitate swapping, no customer will accept buying a brand new car only to swap out the new battery for a 3 year old battery before they reach home. Newson is proceeding on blind faith with Better Place.

I suggest SF spend its money on purchases of the upcoming Chevrolet Volt and encourage BMW’s electric mini and other hybrid vehicles with advanced electric technology. Spend a few bucks for a downtown charging stations directly with Coulomb Technologies but not on the ridiculous notion of swapping stations. Coulomb demonstrated a Saturn Vue plug-in at the Plug-in 2008 conference. Their product is real and based on engineering and economics not hype.

“Electric cars only go around 150 miles before conking out. BP is putting stations in Israel where it makes sense. You can’t go 150 miles without hitting the ocean or enemy territory. The system might work in Australia too, where most people live in coastal cities. But in California? Are consumers really going to buy a car in the $30,000 to $40,000 range that isn’t as functional as their cheaper gas car? It’s going to take work.”

Personally I am all for them just wondering if they will take hold. Also, in the absense of a smart grid isn’t the energy mostly coming from coal anyway??? That’s not very green.

the above comments were clipped from an interesting article in GreenTech Media. See: http://greenlight.greentechmedia.com/2008/11/20/project-better-place-putting-stations-in-sf-735/